Looks like the vice is being tightened on the ponzi paper market, I wonder how JPM is going to deliver gold it hasn't got?? Maybe they'll offer Chavez some GLD paper. This should make interesting viewing.
SGS WAS RIGHT ABOUT INTERACTIVE BROKERS!!!! Check out zero hedge headline, IB closed for trading indefinitely ten minutes ago, what a shitty shitty company
IB is a small player when it comes to the EE's manipulation of PMs (wow, that's a lot of acronyms in one sentence). Just wait until Comex steps in with the margin hikes, then the real fun begins.
Also, here's Eel's short trade of the week: PANL. Gone full retard, because people love to buy cheap Asian electronics in a fucking recession. Unless a LULU happens, this shit will plunge when the algos are done pumping the risk-on trade with the Qs.
Re. Chevez, nobody ships by boat it a smoke screen to keep the crooks away from the airport.
Gold, Silver Point Down After China Data; Citi Raises Gold Forecasts: http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2011/08/23/gold-silver-point-down-after-china-data-citi-raises-gold-forecasts/?mod=yahoobarrons
Should help the PMs out, barring any manipulation. Watch the indexes take a hit in afternoon trading from this. I like how there's a weekly negative housing report, yet the market refuses to look forward to price in the worst-of-the-worst.
I would not want to be the Captain of the ship or airplane that is going to be hauling Hugo's lead... I mean tungst... I mean gold to him. You know that fucker is going down in a ball of fire.
Evidently the Gold is already back. The story went to the press afterwards. They let Chaves have his Gold because they didn't want him shouting how everything was corrupt if he didn't get it.
Morgan Freeman has stated that if he could he would vote for Obama a 1000 times. I guess being a famous movie actor doesn't give immunity to stupidity.
Max Keiser says the right things but he's still a Socialist.
Home Depot just shipped an order of cordless drills and bits to Venezuela. Chevez is on record saying tungsten = no coke 4 you! He figures 2 weeks and the BoE will be begging to replace the gold at their cost.
My God do I hate this market. Based on the S/G ratio, silver should be at 80-100. When gold goes up, silver sits there. When gold drops, silver follows. How can we win? This whole system needs to burn. Sorry, had to vent. Today's price action is gaytarded.
What I don't get, and maybe someone can explain, if silver is money and so many places are losing their money value and riots and failed banks, why no talk of run on silver? Why hasn't silver become short in these failing areas? I keep hearing plan for the crash of the dollar, silver will be money, yet this does not seem to be the case in these other countries? why not? what will be different when our crooked gov trashes our dollar more?
SGS, do you think Benny Boy is gonna ramp up the printing presses after Jacksoncornhole? So far it seems they can keep the Dow above 11,000 without it. Is the Prezzies Whoring Group on Financial Markets enough to keep the Ponzi running?
our metals getting absolutely dicked on while the S&P is up 25 points. Why? What "good news" is there? I'm so sick of this bullshit. Maybe investors/algos are seeing QE3 as a sure thing and have now priced in the whole fucking thing.
QE3 isnt coming YET...no way they can do it.. i think Ben is going to make a "point" and is doing so now.. he is saying "ok fuckers, you dont want me to print? I am going to show you polesmokers what it is like if I dont print".. the market still needs to tank at least 10% and than he will say "I told you so"
rush7: relax. Pretend all the fiat will evaporate one day. Turn it into phyzz. Everythime the markets dont go your way, open the safe, look at the shiney metal, and realize what ever happens, no body can take that from you.
hey gold went up 300 in 6 weeks, of course its gonna come down 100, who cares //// silver up from 33 to 44, you think it wont shake down ... some of you need to take a REFRESH vacation
Benakster, will not print! The will just roll over maturing treasuries and buy more. All he is worried about are the rates for the banks ie, interest rate swaps!
Yeah, just some bad timing on the spec plays. Knew this week would be rediculous swings for the gambling account--frustrating though. I am holding physical but didn't get started until 38 a couple weeks ago. And well aware I need more!
"Silver has been used for thousands of years for ornaments and utensils, for trade, and as the basis for many monetary systems. Its value as a precious metal was long considered second only to gold. The word "silver" appears in Anglo-Saxon in various spellings such as seolfor and siolfor. A similar form is seen throughout the Germanic languages (compare Old High German silabar and silbir). The chemical symbol Ag is from the Latin for "silver", argentum (compare Greek άργυρος, árgyros), from the Indo-European root *arg- meaning "white" or "shining". Silver has been known since ancient times. Mentioned in the book of Genesis, slag heaps found in Asia Minor and on the islands of the Aegean Sea indicate silver was being separated from lead as early as the 4th millennium BC using surface mining.
The stability of the Roman currency relied to a high degree on the supply of silver bullion, which Roman miners produced on a scale unparalleled before the discovery of the New World. Reaching a peak production of 200 t per year, an estimated silver stock of 10,000 t circulated in the Roman economy in the middle of the second century AD, five to ten times larger than the combined amount of silver available to medieval Europe and the Caliphate around 800 AD.
First off that's an old article, second ask Mexico and Carlos Slim, third you can fucking buy bread with a fractional gold fucking coin! Even in hyperinflation.
Geeze, where is the practicality! Sure gold can serve to balance trade and back currencies, but in everyday transaction you need silver!
"Money is debt, by its very nature, whether it is gold, paper, sea shells, tally sticks or lines drawn in the sand. (Another shocking statement?) Yes, even gold used as money represents debt. More on this in a moment."
Bullshit!!
Gold and silver have no debt attached to them!
"At today’s prices, a million dollars in gold weighs less than fifty pounds, but a million dollars in silver weighs more than 2,300 pounds! So ask yourself, how many rich people are storing their own silver? How many hedge funds hold physical silver in their own storage facility?"
First off that's an old article, second ask Mexico and Carlos Slim, third you cant fucking buy bread with a fractional gold fucking coin! Even in hyperinflation.
When China, one of the most productive nations in the world, treats silver as reserve then it's money. You know why? Because silver is a 'tradition' to Chinese.
My father and others I know felt the earthquake in Connecticut, there is major seismic activity spanning the entire US in the past 24 hours. There is a cat 3 hurricane about to hit the eastern seaboard, the end times may be here, the mayans state the end times begin with earthquakes where the people don't remember there were any before, at the same time as a devastating typhoon. what do you people think of that?
5.9 earthquake LIKE I SAID ACTUALLLLLL DEFFFFCONNNN mandatroy military escorted evacuations of the capital building. MARTIAL LAW IS IN EFFECT IN DC !!!! i freaking called it
Malcom- what does the age of the article have to do with it? You just revealed you are not yet understanding that article, let alone the concept of that site.
I suggest you read the comments as there is as much to learn from the unlearned asking the questions you bring up.
You wouldn't need the fractional gold to buy bread anyway, all you would need/use is whatever the reserve currency being utilized is- in FOFOA, FOA, and Another's view, that will be the euro.
It's not about fractional gold or a gold standard.
Robert, if that story from the Man is even remotely close to true, I would agree. You do know though that story is written to have taken place 2000 years ago though, right? Silver has been money throughout history. that was never part of this discussion.
Silver was certainly used as money in the past. So why not again today? Maybe the people will rise up and demand silver money! Maybe China, or somebody else, will remonetize silver and start a new silver standard, right? After all, China was the last to use a silver standard.
I don't mean to pick a fight with silver. In fact, I write this post with a heavy heart. But there is so much silver hype right now that I feel I owe it to my readers to at least try to spell out Another perspective. And China is certainly on the minds of the silverbugs these days. How often have we heard about China encouraging its citizens to buy gold and silver lately? (There's that "gold and silver" again.)
But did you know that China was practically dumping its silver a decade ago? And to this day it is still a large exporter of silver. Not gold. Just silver. In 2009 China exported 3,500 tonnes of silver. That amount will probably be cut in half for 2010. The drop is due to increases in both industrial and investor demand, but also due to China's recent move to stem the shipment of all natural resources leaving its shores.
Don't you think the fact that Euro is collapsing in front of our eyes proves that FOA/Another had miscalculated what really makes currency healthy and thus got the whole thing wrong? Why would anyone wanna Dollar to merge into Euro? It's like jumping from one Titanic onto another.
"Geeze, where is the practicality! Sure gold can serve to balance trade and back currencies, but in everyday transaction you need silver!"
Malcom, think about what you wrote. You almost described freegold. The gold does indeed remain still and backs the reserve currency that is needed and used by everyman to buy milk and bread. What is easier to create, use , and distribute though: silver coins or cotton pieces of paper with fancy pictures and denominations on them printed by press??
that is part of the point of that article. Man has found an easier currency than silver- paper.
The age of the article is important because not only does sentiments towards PM's or in the case silver change, but also price. And in silver's case with the so called industrial utility of silver always brought up, decreasing yet it's price is inverse!
Now, I did not insult your intelligence nor your learning aptitude, why would you attempted to question my reading comprehension?
Is it because I vehemently disagree with the article?
If you take that as religion then I apologize for insulting your religion!
you would need to read FOFOA's distillations of FOA and Another to understand but to answer your question, It aint over till it's over and if I were you, I would not bury the euro yet. Rest assured, the answer to your question lies in that site. I have been reading there for months and it has slowly but surely solidified as each lightbulb goes off- often after reading something of his that I have read once or twice before.
You are not keeping up with the development. China net silver imports hit record 3500 tons in 2010. Check here: http://www.commodityonline.com/news/China-Silver-imports-hit-record-3500-tons-in-2010-36266-3-1.html
You need to get off all that "footsteps of giants" theory those folks @ FOFOA blogs obsessed about. The right form of money is always ultimately decided by the productive part of a society rather than some mysterious 'giants'.
You produce sth useful first, then you decide what kinda payment you want for your products, and that's how money gets decided. Gold for big transactions (e.g. international trade). Silver for medium or daily commerce.
Malcom, That article speaks truths and facts. Not sentiments nor price. I was not aware I came off to you as insulting your inteligence or learning aptitude. That was not intended and I don't even know how you perceived that. I will go back and look what I said. I apologize for making you feel that way. That was NEVER intended. There is just profound rightness for lack of a better term at that site. I assume you know what he is writing about and the source for his explanations.
Jojo, "that is part of the point of that article. Man has found an easier currency than silver- paper."
Do you not see the problem in that practice, logic, and system?
That is what got us here today.
"What is easier to create, use , and distribute though: silver coins or cotton pieces of paper with fancy pictures and denominations on them printed by press??"
Ever seen a silver dollar, half dollar, come on a how about a quarter? lol
"The gold does indeed remain still and backs the reserve currency that is needed and used by everyman to buy milk and bread."
What fucking currency are you talking about? Seriously?
I not only read the articles but also debated with FOFOA, and often times in heated manner.
I can tell you one simple rule about the health of any currency: If there's no strong production behind it then that currency is in trouble. The only reason Euro had some strength behind it was b/c of the northern productive nations of the union. Once those members are tired of this endless PIIGS mess they will want out (which is inevitable) then the Euro will break up. Count on it.
oh ok...i think i get where I offended you malcom...sorry. I was trying to phrase a touchy thing the softest way I could but fear not- what you think i was implying or saying about you, I say about myself a few short weeks ago. I truly meant no harm. I sincerely wish everyone would read that site and especially the comments because it is VERY dense and it takes a WHILE to "get it". as i said, i am only recently "getting" bigger and bigger chunks of what he says. By no means was I trying to disparage you. I have read that one article 2.5 times in the last few weeks alone.
Malcom, Looks like i have gotten my self in a tizzy with you and RUI and like I said, I am no expert so I can't answer every question with the best answer because i myself am still reading and learning. But, i have seen almost every question like you guys ask be asked in his comment section and every answer made absolute sense. This is a DENSE subject but between those 3 writers, if you spend the time, you will understand and learn lots. Now, that said, when you say:
"Do you not see the problem in that practice, logic, and system?
That is what got us here today."
You are wrong. The system they (and i guess now I) was talking about is different. The new system (free gold)uses a reserve currency (like "what got us here") (kinda answering your second part now) too but gold is allowed to float (free) and serves as a store of value. In this sytem, you have the paper currency that circulates(that the whole world is used to and comfortable with and "gets") and you have gold which floats in value and stores wealth. The paper currency can be inflated or deflated based on need without destroying things. it is like a combination of what we have now. Note- it is not a gold standard which would try to FIX a gold price which would not let the money supply expand which means someone would need to break that promise (again) (1971 anyone???)
Starting at the top; the "focal point". Schelling was right in premise, but wrong in conclusion. As illustrated by the three blue squares and one red square example for starters... assume there were three blue squares and one red square and one green square. The participants would, on average, pick both the red and the green square to facilitate the win of the prize.
Further, In a game of musical chairs... 11 participants, 9 black chairs and one green chair. Participants are told that when the music stops, anyone not having found a black chair is out of the game... every turn of the music, someone always still rushes to sit in the green chair... WHY?... survival instinct.
thanks for the further info on Schelling Funthea, but i don't see your point. expanding with examples on your first post would be nice too because the broad brush used leaves no room for details.
The opening point of FOFOA's thesis is that of the "focal point", that there is always a draw to just one. That being gold over silver. FOFOA uses Shelling to illustrate this one draw rule.
I took Shelling's focal point premise and showed that it could still apply while discrediting the conclusion that Shelling made; or at least discrediting the conclusion FOFOA made from it.
I simply picked the first erroneous conclusion of FOFOA to make my point. There many others, including the failure to interject the mass influence of the Federal reserve in countless aspects of his argument regarding silvers role over the past hundred years.
Recently there's a survey on Germany public opinions about the Euro and European Union and the results are below: 59% wish to end all bailouts of PIGS nations 75% disapprove of the performance by Merkel 58% wish to expel Greece from the Euro Monetary Union 86% of Germans think the Euro currency is at risk 71% of Germans are doubtful about the common currency viability 56% of Germans say the Euro has brought them economic disadvantages.
You see the backbone nation of the Euro is having enough and wanting the nightmare to end. What do you think of their appetite for US to join Euro with a mess 10X the size of that of the PIIGS? It doesn't add up.
It's like, say, you and I are neighbors. You are in sound fiscal shape w/o any debt. I however have lost my job while getting stuck in an under-water mortgage. I then approach you to form a fiscal union in order for you to cover my bill. Are you willing to form the union or would rather tell me to get lost?
Euro itself is already melting down, and Germans themselves are looking for an exit. If Germany cannot handle PIIGS mess in the ball park of 3-5 trillion US$ debt I doubt they'd be willing to take on another 14T from Uncle Sam.
Another and, especially, FOA had got Euro wrong. FOFOA is still blindly following that belief. You, jojo, need to take a look at the on-going situation before embracing whatever FOFOA is preaching.
Since jojo linked this on FOFOA, I decided to click. :)
"You need to get off all that "footsteps of giants" theory those folks @ FOFOA blogs obsessed about. The right form of money is always ultimately decided by the productive part of a society rather than some mysterious 'giants'."
Heh. I like this. A question. Does those who produce more have a bigger or smaller vote? Bigger I would say; you are free to disagree.
Those big producers, they Are the giants of which he speaks.
Is China alone enough to make silver money? Perhaps. However I suspect if they see no other giants agree, or rather not all other, then there are cost implications which make it less viable than something all giants agree upon.
The idea of Freegold does not say the USD will merge with the Euro. Where are you getting that from Rui?
I will agree that Another and his friend did not foresee the dollar lasting this long. You need to understand that all that matters is that the euro survives while the dollar does. If they print, so be it, issue bonds, so be it. Survival is key.
Looks like the vice is being tightened on the ponzi paper market, I wonder how JPM is going to deliver gold it hasn't got?? Maybe they'll offer Chavez some GLD paper. This should make interesting viewing.
ReplyDeleteSGS WAS RIGHT ABOUT INTERACTIVE BROKERS!!!! Check out zero hedge headline, IB closed for trading indefinitely ten minutes ago, what a shitty shitty company
ReplyDeleteand... theyre back online
ReplyDeleteGold is the new world reserve asset
ReplyDeleteIB is a small player when it comes to the EE's manipulation of PMs (wow, that's a lot of acronyms in one sentence). Just wait until Comex steps in with the margin hikes, then the real fun begins.
ReplyDeleteAlso, here's Eel's short trade of the week: PANL. Gone full retard, because people love to buy cheap Asian electronics in a fucking recession. Unless a LULU happens, this shit will plunge when the algos are done pumping the risk-on trade with the Qs.
Based on history, does Hugo get eliminated?
ReplyDeleteBanksters motto: If you can't deliver...cancel the request.
I don't really believe he fears for his life. That's what makes him precious - he's already dead and he knows it. This should be interesting.
ReplyDeleteRe. Chevez, nobody ships by boat it a smoke screen to keep the crooks away from the airport.
ReplyDeleteGold, Silver Point Down After China Data; Citi Raises Gold Forecasts: http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2011/08/23/gold-silver-point-down-after-china-data-citi-raises-gold-forecasts/?mod=yahoobarrons
Should help the PMs out, barring any manipulation. Watch the indexes take a hit in afternoon trading from this. I like how there's a weekly negative housing report, yet the market refuses to look forward to price in the worst-of-the-worst.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-23/u-s-new-home-sales-fell-in-july-to-lowest-level-in-five-months.html
I would not want to be the Captain of the ship or airplane that is going to be hauling Hugo's lead... I mean tungst... I mean gold to him. You know that fucker is going down in a ball of fire.
ReplyDeleteEvidently the Gold is already back. The story went to the press afterwards.
ReplyDeleteThey let Chaves have his Gold because they didn't want him shouting how everything was corrupt if he didn't get it.
Morgan Freeman has stated that if he could he would vote for Obama a 1000 times. I guess being a famous movie actor doesn't give immunity to stupidity.
Max Keiser says the right things but he's still a Socialist.
Home Depot just shipped an order of cordless drills and bits to Venezuela. Chevez is on record saying tungsten = no coke 4 you! He figures 2 weeks and the BoE will be begging to replace the gold at their cost.
ReplyDelete1% or 2% rule for gold price? Couldn't make this up if I tried. Check of James Turk interview on the left, first video with a white background.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.goldmoney.com/gold-research-videos.html
looks like the metal / market inverse correlation is back! LOL 42.5 is back. go long? go real long ?
ReplyDeleteGlad to see another successful retest of $42.50.
ReplyDeleteMy God do I hate this market. Based on the S/G ratio, silver should be at 80-100. When gold goes up, silver sits there. When gold drops, silver follows. How can we win? This whole system needs to burn. Sorry, had to vent. Today's price action is gaytarded.
ReplyDeletemarkets gonna pop a bone
ReplyDeletesorry to be a dick i've been holding zsl since $19 and crying every morning until today :P
ReplyDelete$42.5 looks pretty good right now...
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get, and maybe someone can explain, if silver is money and so many places are losing their money value and riots and failed banks, why no talk of run on silver? Why hasn't silver become short in these failing areas? I keep hearing plan for the crash of the dollar, silver will be money, yet this does not seem to be the case in these other countries? why not? what will be different when our crooked gov trashes our dollar more?
ReplyDelete"$42.5 looks pretty good right now..."
ReplyDeleteDoes it? lol
SGS, do you think Benny Boy is gonna ramp up the printing presses after Jacksoncornhole? So far it seems they can keep the Dow above 11,000 without it. Is the Prezzies Whoring Group on Financial Markets enough to keep the Ponzi running?
ReplyDeleteour metals getting absolutely dicked on while the S&P is up 25 points. Why? What "good news" is there? I'm so sick of this bullshit. Maybe investors/algos are seeing QE3 as a sure thing and have now priced in the whole fucking thing.
ReplyDeleteCharges dropped, Strauss-Kahn thanks his supporters
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110823/prosecutors-strauss-kahn-110823/
Look out Sarcozy, the man is coming for your job. Wait until they found out how much the maid was paid to take the only presidential opponent down!
LOL - they're all fucking criminals on a tax payer spending spree!
QE3 isnt coming YET...no way they can do it.. i think Ben is going to make a "point" and is doing so now.. he is saying "ok fuckers, you dont want me to print? I am going to show you polesmokers what it is like if I dont print".. the market still needs to tank at least 10% and than he will say "I told you so"
ReplyDeleteCEF down
ReplyDeleteSIL calls down
SLW calls down
SVM calls down
TZA calls down
USO puts down
DRYS down
FRO down
JAMN down
MGN down
Happens every time that cocksucker Bernake is going to open his fat fucking treasonous mouth, without fail, regardless of what I am in at the time.
Problem, reaction, solution. I hope it tanks 100%.
ReplyDeleterush7: relax. Pretend all the fiat will evaporate one day. Turn it into phyzz. Everythime the markets dont go your way, open the safe, look at the shiney metal, and realize what ever happens, no body can take that from you.
ReplyDeletehey gold went up 300 in 6 weeks, of course its gonna come down 100, who cares //// silver up from 33 to 44, you think it wont shake down ... some of you need to take a REFRESH vacation
ReplyDeleteBenakster, will not print!
ReplyDeleteThe will just roll over maturing treasuries and buy more. All he is worried about are the rates for the banks ie, interest rate swaps!
See Jim Rickards
I betting after Friday all hell breaks lose!
Looking at the 5 min charts, is it just me or does the EE attack after 12:30?
ReplyDeleteYeah, just some bad timing on the spec plays. Knew this week would be rediculous swings for the gambling account--frustrating though. I am holding physical but didn't get started until 38 a couple weeks ago. And well aware I need more!
ReplyDeleteHorseguy-
ReplyDeleteSilver is not money.
Read this and understand:
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/12/focal-point-gold.html
"Silver has been used for thousands of years for ornaments and utensils, for trade, and as the basis for many monetary systems. Its value as a precious metal was long considered second only to gold. The word "silver" appears in Anglo-Saxon in various spellings such as seolfor and siolfor. A similar form is seen throughout the Germanic languages (compare Old High German silabar and silbir). The chemical symbol Ag is from the Latin for "silver", argentum (compare Greek άργυρος, árgyros), from the Indo-European root *arg- meaning "white" or "shining". Silver has been known since ancient times. Mentioned in the book of Genesis, slag heaps found in Asia Minor and on the islands of the Aegean Sea indicate silver was being separated from lead as early as the 4th millennium BC using surface mining.
ReplyDeleteThe stability of the Roman currency relied to a high degree on the supply of silver bullion, which Roman miners produced on a scale unparalleled before the discovery of the New World. Reaching a peak production of 200 t per year, an estimated silver stock of 10,000 t circulated in the Roman economy in the middle of the second century AD, five to ten times larger than the combined amount of silver available to medieval Europe and the Caliphate around 800 AD.
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/12/focal-point-gold.html
ReplyDeleteFirst off that's an old article, second ask Mexico and Carlos Slim, third you can fucking buy bread with a fractional gold fucking coin! Even in hyperinflation.
Geeze, where is the practicality! Sure gold can serve to balance trade and back currencies, but in everyday transaction you need silver!
"Money is debt, by its very nature, whether it is gold, paper, sea shells, tally sticks or lines drawn in the sand. (Another shocking statement?) Yes, even gold used as money represents debt. More on this in a moment."
Bullshit!!
Gold and silver have no debt attached to them!
"At today’s prices, a million dollars in gold weighs less than fifty pounds, but a million dollars in silver weighs more than 2,300 pounds! So ask yourself, how many rich people are storing their own silver? How many hedge funds hold physical silver in their own storage facility?"
Not for long!
edit:
ReplyDeleteFirst off that's an old article, second ask Mexico and Carlos Slim, third you cant fucking buy bread with a fractional gold fucking coin! Even in hyperinflation.
When China, one of the most productive nations in the world, treats silver as reserve then it's money. You know why? Because silver is a 'tradition' to Chinese.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-31/china-should-buy-more-gold-silver-for-reserves-daily-reports.html
lol 13:53 earthquake triggers futures gap down and saves the PMs. must be the HFTs hard drives shut down from the rumble
ReplyDeleteMy father and others I know felt the earthquake in Connecticut, there is major seismic activity spanning the entire US in the past 24 hours. There is a cat 3 hurricane about to hit the eastern seaboard, the end times may be here, the mayans state the end times begin with earthquakes where the people don't remember there were any before, at the same time as a devastating typhoon. what do you people think of that?
ReplyDelete5.9 earthquake LIKE I SAID ACTUALLLLLL DEFFFFCONNNN mandatroy military escorted evacuations of the capital building. MARTIAL LAW IS IN EFFECT IN DC !!!! i freaking called it
ReplyDeleteCommodityworldnews@,
ReplyDeleteWell as a resident of the great Pacific Rim and the Ring of Fire. I as bring it on! We can hold up here for 6 months or up to a year!
See, Tool learn to swim!
Malcom- what does the age of the article have to do with it? You just revealed you are not yet understanding that article, let alone the concept of that site.
ReplyDeleteI suggest you read the comments as there is as much to learn from the unlearned asking the questions you bring up.
You wouldn't need the fractional gold to buy bread anyway, all you would need/use is whatever the reserve currency being utilized is- in FOFOA, FOA, and Another's view, that will be the euro.
It's not about fractional gold or a gold standard.
Judas sold out Jesus to the Romans for 30 pieces of silver. I suspect that was a fiscal transaction.
ReplyDeleteand don't get me wrong, I am actively stacking silver. my reasons and intentions, without doubt, differ from yours.
ReplyDeleteRobert, if that story from the Man is even remotely close to true, I would agree.
ReplyDeleteYou do know though that story is written to have taken place 2000 years ago though, right? Silver has been money throughout history. that was never part of this discussion.
The Fed is now trying earthquakes in DC! They are getting fancy!
ReplyDeleteRUI:
ReplyDeletefrom said article:
Silver was certainly used as money in the past. So why not again today? Maybe the people will rise up and demand silver money! Maybe China, or somebody else, will remonetize silver and start a new silver standard, right? After all, China was the last to use a silver standard.
I don't mean to pick a fight with silver. In fact, I write this post with a heavy heart. But there is so much silver hype right now that I feel I owe it to my readers to at least try to spell out Another perspective. And China is certainly on the minds of the silverbugs these days. How often have we heard about China encouraging its citizens to buy gold and silver lately? (There's that "gold and silver" again.)
But did you know that China was practically dumping its silver a decade ago? And to this day it is still a large exporter of silver. Not gold. Just silver. In 2009 China exported 3,500 tonnes of silver. That amount will probably be cut in half for 2010. The drop is due to increases in both industrial and investor demand, but also due to China's recent move to stem the shipment of all natural resources leaving its shores.
"... that will be the euro"
ReplyDeleteDon't you think the fact that Euro is collapsing in front of our eyes proves that FOA/Another had miscalculated what really makes currency healthy and thus got the whole thing wrong? Why would anyone wanna Dollar to merge into Euro? It's like jumping from one Titanic onto another.
"Geeze, where is the practicality! Sure gold can serve to balance trade and back currencies, but in everyday transaction you need silver!"
ReplyDeleteMalcom, think about what you wrote. You almost described freegold.
The gold does indeed remain still and backs the reserve currency that is needed and used by everyman to buy milk and bread.
What is easier to create, use , and distribute though: silver coins or cotton pieces of paper with fancy pictures and denominations on them printed by press??
that is part of the point of that article. Man has found an easier currency than silver- paper.
Jojo,
ReplyDeleteThe age of the article is important because not only does sentiments towards PM's or in the case silver change, but also price. And in silver's case with the so called industrial utility of silver always brought up, decreasing yet it's price is inverse!
Now, I did not insult your intelligence nor your learning aptitude, why would you attempted to question my reading comprehension?
Is it because I vehemently disagree with the article?
If you take that as religion then I apologize for insulting your religion!
Your a presumptions lot you are!
RUI,
ReplyDeleteyou would need to read FOFOA's distillations of FOA and Another to understand but to answer your question, It aint over till it's over and if I were you, I would not bury the euro yet.
Rest assured, the answer to your question lies in that site. I have been reading there for months and it has slowly but surely solidified as each lightbulb goes off- often after reading something of his that I have read once or twice before.
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ReplyDeleteJOJO,
ReplyDeleteYou are not keeping up with the development. China net silver imports hit record 3500 tons in 2010. Check here:
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/China-Silver-imports-hit-record-3500-tons-in-2010-36266-3-1.html
You need to get off all that "footsteps of giants" theory those folks @ FOFOA blogs obsessed about. The right form of money is always ultimately decided by the productive part of a society rather than some mysterious 'giants'.
You produce sth useful first, then you decide what kinda payment you want for your products, and that's how money gets decided. Gold for big transactions (e.g. international trade). Silver for medium or daily commerce.
Malcom,
ReplyDeleteThat article speaks truths and facts. Not sentiments nor price. I was not aware I came off to you as insulting your inteligence or learning aptitude. That was not intended and I don't even know how you perceived that. I will go back and look what I said. I apologize for making you feel that way. That was NEVER intended. There is just profound rightness for lack of a better term at that site. I assume you know what he is writing about and the source for his explanations.
Jojo,
ReplyDelete"that is part of the point of that article. Man has found an easier currency than silver- paper."
Do you not see the problem in that practice, logic, and system?
That is what got us here today.
"What is easier to create, use , and distribute though: silver coins or cotton pieces of paper with fancy pictures and denominations on them printed by press??"
Ever seen a silver dollar, half dollar, come on a how about a quarter? lol
"The gold does indeed remain still and backs the reserve currency that is needed and used by everyman to buy milk and bread."
What fucking currency are you talking about? Seriously?
JOJO,
ReplyDeleteI not only read the articles but also debated with FOFOA, and often times in heated manner.
I can tell you one simple rule about the health of any currency: If there's no strong production behind it then that currency is in trouble. The only reason Euro had some strength behind it was b/c of the northern productive nations of the union. Once those members are tired of this endless PIIGS mess they will want out (which is inevitable) then the Euro will break up. Count on it.
Here we go.. Turd's post last night has $41.50 as the near term trendline. We're at $41.48 now, let's see if this holds...
ReplyDeleteoh ok...i think i get where I offended you malcom...sorry. I was trying to phrase a touchy thing the softest way I could but fear not- what you think i was implying or saying about you, I say about myself a few short weeks ago. I truly meant no harm.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely wish everyone would read that site and especially the comments because it is VERY dense and it takes a WHILE to "get it". as i said, i am only recently "getting" bigger and bigger chunks of what he says. By no means was I trying to disparage you. I have read that one article 2.5 times in the last few weeks alone.
FOFOA is like theoretical mathematicians, they never leave the lab and mingle with normal people!
ReplyDeleteIf I was selling anything right now and was offered silver instead on paper, I would take it. In the future that will be the norm.
Jojo,
Its ok we are all CIG, comrades in gold! I just disagree with the premise of the article.
Somethings are great in theory but fail in practice!
I hope that is the bottom, I'll pick up more calls!
ReplyDeleteMalcom,
ReplyDeleteLooks like i have gotten my self in a tizzy with you and RUI and like I said, I am no expert so I can't answer every question with the best answer because i myself am still reading and learning. But, i have seen almost every question like you guys ask be asked in his comment section and every answer made absolute sense. This is a DENSE subject but between those 3 writers, if you spend the time, you will understand and learn lots.
Now, that said, when you say:
"Do you not see the problem in that practice, logic, and system?
That is what got us here today."
You are wrong. The system they (and i guess now I) was talking about is different. The new system (free gold)uses a reserve currency (like "what got us here") (kinda answering your second part now) too but gold is allowed to float (free) and serves as a store of value. In this sytem, you have the paper currency that circulates(that the whole world is used to and comfortable with and "gets") and you have gold which floats in value and stores wealth. The paper currency can be inflated or deflated based on need without destroying things. it is like a combination of what we have now.
Note- it is not a gold standard which would try to FIX a gold price which would not let the money supply expand which means someone would need to break that promise (again) (1971 anyone???)
RUI,
ReplyDeleteI guess then there's surely nothing I can add let alone change your mind on something so i guess I will just watch what happens.
Jojo,
ReplyDeletegot it! :)
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ReplyDeleteJojo,
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of holes in the argument from FOFOA's site. One needs only not accept all illustrations as fact.
Jojo,
ReplyDeleteStarting at the top; the "focal point". Schelling was right in premise, but wrong in conclusion. As illustrated by the three blue squares and one red square example for starters... assume there were three blue squares and one red square and one green square. The participants would, on average, pick both the red and the green square to facilitate the win of the prize.
Further,
In a game of musical chairs... 11 participants, 9 black chairs and one green chair. Participants are told that when the music stops, anyone not having found a black chair is out of the game... every turn of the music, someone always still rushes to sit in the green chair... WHY?... survival instinct.
thanks for the further info on Schelling Funthea, but i don't see your point. expanding with examples on your first post would be nice too because the broad brush used leaves no room for details.
ReplyDeleteJojo,
ReplyDeleteThe opening point of FOFOA's thesis is that of the "focal point", that there is always a draw to just one. That being gold over silver. FOFOA uses Shelling to illustrate this one draw rule.
I took Shelling's focal point premise and showed that it could still apply while discrediting the conclusion that Shelling made; or at least discrediting the conclusion FOFOA made from it.
I simply picked the first erroneous conclusion of FOFOA to make my point. There many others, including the failure to interject the mass influence of the Federal reserve in countless aspects of his argument regarding silvers role over the past hundred years.
jojo
ReplyDeleteRecently there's a survey on Germany public opinions about the Euro and European Union and the results are below:
59% wish to end all bailouts of PIGS nations
75% disapprove of the performance by Merkel
58% wish to expel Greece from the Euro Monetary Union
86% of Germans think the Euro currency is at risk
71% of Germans are doubtful about the common currency viability
56% of Germans say the Euro has brought them economic disadvantages.
You see the backbone nation of the Euro is having enough and wanting the nightmare to end. What do you think of their appetite for US to join Euro with a mess 10X the size of that of the PIIGS? It doesn't add up.
It's like, say, you and I are neighbors. You are in sound fiscal shape w/o any debt. I however have lost my job while getting stuck in an under-water mortgage. I then approach you to form a fiscal union in order for you to cover my bill. Are you willing to form the union or would rather tell me to get lost?
Euro itself is already melting down, and Germans themselves are looking for an exit. If Germany cannot handle PIIGS mess in the ball park of 3-5 trillion US$ debt I doubt they'd be willing to take on another 14T from Uncle Sam.
Another and, especially, FOA had got Euro wrong. FOFOA is still blindly following that belief. You, jojo, need to take a look at the on-going situation before embracing whatever FOFOA is preaching.
Hi Rui
ReplyDeleteSince jojo linked this on FOFOA, I decided to click. :)
"You need to get off all that "footsteps of giants" theory those folks @ FOFOA blogs obsessed about. The right form of money is always ultimately decided by the productive part of a society rather than some mysterious 'giants'."
Heh. I like this. A question. Does those who produce more have a bigger or smaller vote? Bigger I would say; you are free to disagree.
Those big producers, they Are the giants of which he speaks.
Is China alone enough to make silver money? Perhaps. However I suspect if they see no other giants agree, or rather not all other, then there are cost implications which make it less viable than something all giants agree upon.
The idea of Freegold does not say the USD will merge with the Euro. Where are you getting that from Rui?
I will agree that Another and his friend did not foresee the dollar lasting this long. You need to understand that all that matters is that the euro survives while the dollar does. If they print, so be it, issue bonds, so be it. Survival is key.
Peace
TF